With Great Sadness/Tortuga Tom

Our dear Tortuga Tom has lost his battle with cancer. 
 May he forever swim with the tortugas.  Be at peace my friend.  



You all know Loco Gringo is legit. We have a forum where you can ask pretty much anything to check us out, PM other members, etc. This is NOT necessarily true for other booking options.
We were just contacted by a woman who has been scammed to the tune of a 5-digit figure for a New Years reservation at a top notch villa, represented as an exclusive hotel. She has some 18 people in her group. Imagine the airfare fiasco on top of the rental scam! This makes me wonder how the global pay-per-page listing sites screen their property "owners/managers" to verify that they are legit?
So, while this may sound like a shameless self promotion of locogringo.com just know that we ARE for real and have been since 1996. If you go elsewhere, even to a global rental conglomerate site, you better make sure the listing you want to reserve is for real too.

The Rules of Civility

As a school boy George Washington wrote a treatise on the Rules of Civility and Decent Behaviour. There's a great novel by Amor Towles of the same name that takes place in the US in 1938. Good read. Here's something I found regarding "Posting With Civility". I thought it was kind of interesting, and a good reminder for "posting with civility." You may want to print it out and put it next to your keyboard. [:D] And for the record, I can't say I always succeed either.


Internet forums are great. But, discussing the relative merits of hiking boots or skis is one thing and discussing issues that are rooted in our deepest held personal beliefs is another. The question is, how do we discuss things while remaining civil?
Here are a few things I try to keep in mind when entering such discussions. I can't say I always succeed. In fact, I'm not even close. But, I do find these rules to be helpful.

DEBATE IDEAS, NOT PEOPLE - Few of us are really expressing new ideas. More often, we are just mouthpieces for traditions and lines of thought that have been handed down to us. Unfortunately, ideas need people to express them and people are clumsy. Old Joke...

Q: How do porcupines mate?

A: Carefully.

Internet posts can be like porcupines. Focus on the ideas, not the quills. When you read a post, look for the idea that is being expressed. If you respond to the barbs of personal attacks, you have lost focus.

NEVER, EVER PERSONALIZE - Work very hard to avoid making personal assertions about other posters. While it is true that no matter how hard you try, somebody somewhere will take personal offense to what you wrote, still make the attempt to keep it impersonal. In the other direction, ignore personal attacks made against you at all costs. It is a practical impossibility to defend your honor while engaged in a mud slinging contest. Besides, you will find when you meet over beer/coffee/whatever that most of the personal attacks weren't meant. People type and read without the aids of body language and feelings get hurt easily.

LET YOUR IDEAS DEFEND THEMSELVES - Be confident that the ideas you express have a power of their own that will make them capable of defending themselves. This will free you to resist the urge to convince others to join your point of view. Just as importantly, never criticise another's beliefs as inferior or illegitimate. If you can not affirm another's rights to hold their beliefs, you are not prepared to have a civil discussion with them.

CS Lewis said that you defend God like you defend a lion. You unlock the cage and let the lion defend itself. If you can express an idea in a civil fashion, consider it a success. Don't measure success by convincing others. This is unachievable. Instead, remember that while the person with whom you are discussing ideas won't change his or her mind, others who read and lurk will be considering the merits of both sides. Allow the idea to defend itself to those readers.

DON'T TAKE THE DEBATE BACKCHANNEL - Don't take debates to private for channels of communication like e-mail or private messages. This is to be avoided for 2 reasons. First, it changes the dynamic for the listener. The conversation moves from an open discussion in the school lunchroom to a private confrontation behind the school, so to speak. Private challenges are simply ineffectual in terms of influencing people. Worse, they remain ineffectual no matter how hard one works at trying to be reasonable and kind. I have concluded that people can hear me better in the relative safety of a public setting where my words can either be supported or challenged by our mutual peers.

Second, I find I that I do a better job of expressing myself in a positive, constructive manner when I choose to submit my words and my reputation to the accountability of public review. Putting it frankly, I generally conduct myself better in public posts.

BE WILLING TO TAKE ONE FOR THE CAUSE - When you step into a discussion of ideals, you can be guaranteed that somebody will disagree. When you do this on electronic forums, you can also pretty much guarantee that somebody will disagree with you in an inappropriate manner. This is simply the cost of doing business. You must ask yourself 2 questions at this point. First, is the idea you hold dearly important enough that you are willing to voice it while knowing that others will disagree? Second, can you sleep at night and ignore inappropriate personal attacks made against you in public? If the answer to either question is "no", then you probably aren't in the right frame of mind for the discussion.

NEVER WRESTLE WITH PIGS - It is amuses the pig and makes you look muddy. No matter how polite and tactful you try to be and no matter how hard you try to avoid personalization of attacks, you will occasionally run into people who will hold grudges and launch personal attacks at every turn. Ignore them entirely. Never respond to their posts.

DON'T BE AN ARROGANT EXPERT - In many internet forums, there is at least one guy (and it always seems to be a guy) who plays the roll of the arrogant expert. Don't be that guy.

Internet forums are great at bringing together people with common interests. One of the best things about this is the opportunity for novices to learn from experts and for experts to give back to the community by helping novices. In the vast majority of cases, it's a situation that rewarding for everybody involved. But there is also the chance for things to go wrong.

One common problem is a form of teacher burnout. After answering the same basic question for the zillionth time, the expert becomes testy to the next novice who unknowingly asks that question for the zillion and oneth time. This burnout can be exasperated when the expert feels like the novice failed to do a basic amount of research on their own before asking the question. There's an infamous internet acronym of RTFM, which grew out of this type of frustration in the context of technical support. Read the f***ing manual (or man page).

Another factor may be that the zeal for the subject that drove the expert to become an expert also makes him less tolerant of incorrect statements about his beloved subject that are made by those with less experience. In protecting the "truth", the expert can come off sounding rough.

But the most pernicious aspect of expert arrogance is how technical expertise can be used to establish a pecking order within the forum. It is very common to see a novice make a post that kicks off a long debate among the forum's experts. This has little to do with answering or correcting the novice and has everything to with establishing who the alpha males of the forum are.

Anyway you look at it, technical help and advice is great. But rude is always rude.

Dave's Backcountry Skiing Page
Copyright 2005 by David Mann

A little insight, again

I'm a slow learner, sorry. I have been getting a lot of requests recently to ban someone because someone else doesn't like something they posted. I've also had other requests to ban people because of ongoing battles between two or three or more people, although I must say that that those types of requests have dropped off drastically since the demise of the political forum. I hate to tell you this since it might encourage some to try to take advantage, but I really don't get deeply involved in board politics. In general, I don't try to keep up with who is friends with who, who hates who, and who has ongoing feuds with who. I generally let each post stand on it's own and don't try to remember what preceded it unless it is in the same (short) thread.

I also very, very rarely "ban" somebody unless they are a spammer. "Ban" to me means banning a person permanently from the board. I have "suspended" some people for a few days for continuously pushing the envelope, serious personal attacks or other violations of the (very loose) rules but I can only remember maybe two or three people in the last five years who were permanently banned, except for spammers and trolls. And, regardless of what some of you accuse me of, I try to be as impartial as I can in any of the few enforcement actions I have taken, and I have suspended several people who I consider friends. The difference between suspending a friend and someone that I don't know very well has been that the friends usually tell me they understand why I did it and apologize, while the others attack me and get all their friends to send me nasty emails. Those of you who know me, know that I don't hold grudges, have a short memory and a very thick skin, requirements to moderate this board. You also know I have no real enemies, only people who I don't yet know well enough to call friends and other friends that I haven't yet met.

Here are a few things that generally won't get you suspended but may (or may not) get your posts deleted:
Accidental or occasional violations of the rules.
Posts that push the envelope of decency.
Baiting another member or argumentative posts.
Illegal links.

Here are a few things that may well get you suspended:
Being a troll, i.e. logging in under two names with the intention of causing arguements or fights.
Repeated personal attacks on another member.
Threats against another member.
Continuing any activity after you have been asked to stop. (i.e. posting repeated political references)
Racial, ethnic or sexual orientation slurs against another member or their family.

The above lists are not all inclusive but should give you enough to get the idea.

If you don't like another member because of something they said or did on the forum, work through it yourself and please don't ask me to intervene. We are all adults (mostly) and I'm not your mommy, so don't ask me to ban somebody who pulled your pigtails or threw a snowball at you. I, along with the help of a few others, try to keep things under some level of control but I miss a lot, and I certainly can't and don't want to control the direction the board takes (specifically on the Edge). You guys are the members, if you don't like a direction the board is going post something to redirect it. You are also pretty much free to say what you want but are expected to be civil and adult and not violate the few things listed above.

If anybody has any suggestions or complaints, as long as they aren't directed at another member, I will be glad to listen.

I don't know why I feel compelled to keep repeating this kind of post every so often, short memory and too much tequila I guess.

Needles to say, I totally agree. Consider this duct-taped to the top of the forum.

Having Trouble Posting Photos?

Once again we have upgraded the software so these instructions may or may not not work as expected. As soon as I can I'll try to revise them. If you are having trouble with posting photos, I have revised the Posting Photos Movie on this page. Bonnie noticed that it didn't seem to work like the movie said. That is because the procedure changed a little with the new LocoGringo software which was installed after the original movie was made, so today, I have revised the movie to fit the new software. If you still can't get it figured out after watching the new movie, just ask here and we will help you figure it out.  

The new movie is fairly large so depending on the speed of your connection it may take a while to load. Enjoy!

Guidlines and advice for Projects

Just posting to let you all know that LG's Art Director, Shape Shifter 47, is now also in charge of reviewing any projects, campaigns or fund raisers involving LG board members under the LG name. I am requesting that you communicate with SS47 regarding advice on what to do, not to do, and as you know he is an awesome consultant on Art and marketing. Please seek his advice and approval at: garylbemis@gmail.com

Thank you for your cooperation.

GUIDELINES for Projects, Campaigns and Fund raisers
Please submit the following information to - garylbemis@gmail.com

  • Write a brief mission statement for the project.
  • Who is in charge of the project?
  • Name the goal.
  • If money donations are solicited, what's the goal amount?
  • How will locogringo.com be used to solicit donations?
  • Who exactly is going to be accountable as the treasurer? Submit their contact information.
  • Will merchandise be produced to sell, in order to raise funds? Will there be a web site to sell merchandise? If so what is the URL?
  • Merchandise is required to have "Sponsored by locogringo.com message board members" written on it somewhere.
  • All designs are subject to the Art Director's approval when in the design phase.
  • A weekly financial report must be posted on the "Projects, campaigns and fundraisers" forum. In the financial report specify how much was collect to date, expenses to date (and what the expenses were for), and the net amount to date that will be available to the beneficiary.
  • Project leaders have the option to donate the net collected funds either incrementally to the beneficiary or as a lump sum. If the beneficiary receives an item, as is the case with the generator for the library, then the cost of the donated item vs. the money collected minus expenses must be reported.
  • A final summary at the end of the project should name the key players, total funds collected, total expenses, and final donation to the beneficiary.

Loco Gringo Inc. aka. locogringo.com is not responsible for, nor accountable or liable for, any collected donations, whether they are items or funds, for any project, campaign, or fund raiser, or variation thereof. Those who choose to participate in any project, campaign, or fund raiser do so entirely at their own risk. Locogringo.com will receive no monetary compensation for their service. LG forum administrators reserve the right to approve, adjust or decline any proposed project, campaign, or fund raiser submitted for our review; or to post any project, campaign, or fund raiser as a "public service announcement" on the forums to bring about public awareness. LG's Art Director, or LG's administrators and owners, have the right to waive any or all of these conditions at their discretion, or defer any of them to a later date.
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LG banner info - UPDATED for Akumal Banner

We are pinning this post to the top of this forum so LG board members can coordinate requests and shipping of the LG banner for regional parties, etc.

Have fun guys!

Introductions please

Hey there fellow Loco's
I'm pretty new to this site but it seems to be a great group of people who all seem willing to help each other out with info on the Mayan Riviera, so lets get to know each other a little better with a simple introduction form, of course your participation is totally voluntary.

1. name or LG board name
2. place you live ie: state/territory/country
3. number of visits to Akumal/Riviera Maya and when you are going back
4. favorite area activity
5. favorite vacation drink
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